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sean
Sergeant
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-1-2007
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posted on 4-5-2007 at 14:44
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where can you get this video..or maybe you can upload it some where and we can view it or download it.....
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MarkC
Captain
Posts: 211
Registered: 28-9-2006
Location: Salem, Oregon
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posted on 5-5-2007 at 02:40
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Kinda cool...our first 2 page thread. 
*edit* I will be checking into the videos. We may be purchasing one or two.
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Allmotor
Super Administrator
Posts: 126
Registered: 21-2-2007
Location: Lane County, Oregon
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posted on 6-5-2007 at 10:09
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And several logging over 100 'views'... Slowly the site is growing and expanding. I also look forward to seeing some of these videos. We have a
few, but I think they ended up copywrited.
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policedriving
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posted on 14-5-2007 at 05:04
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Keep us posted where you can find the videos. Thanks
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TerribleTC
Sergeant
Posts: 51
Registered: 18-5-2007
Location: Brooklyn, MI
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 posted on 22-5-2007 at 16:42
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ALERT Forum
Nice discussion gentlemen. As to ALERT, let's invite all their members to use this forum. No toes to step on, just free sharing of ideas. The only
stupid ideas are the ones not tried.
Looking forward to stirring the pot.
Terry Cutler
(Sim Sensei)
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MarkC
Captain
Posts: 211
Registered: 28-9-2006
Location: Salem, Oregon
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posted on 22-5-2007 at 20:22
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Hi Terry, Welcome aboard! We look forward to you contributing.
I am not currently in contact with any ALERT members. Is anybody ?
I haven't forgotten about the video thing, just been really busy, like everybody.
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sean
Sergeant
Posts: 64
Registered: 10-1-2007
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posted on 24-5-2007 at 14:51
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yep welcome aboard..it is always good to discuss and show new possible technique to make this work better
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policedriving
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posted on 24-5-2007 at 21:19
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I'm an ALERT member and decided to try to help in any way I can with the organization. I am running for Vice President in the organization and
won't know until the conference in October whether I get the opportunity to help as a board member. Regardless of that outcome, I want to help take
ALERT to the next level and hope everyone else joins in.
By the way, you can't vote unless you are a member. Help out the fellow webmaster and join now!
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TerribleTC
Sergeant
Posts: 51
Registered: 18-5-2007
Location: Brooklyn, MI
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posted on 6-7-2007 at 16:50
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You have my vote. Let's see how many more we can get.
Terry Cutler
(Sim Sensei)
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policedriving
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posted on 6-7-2007 at 17:27
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Thanks Terry. If you don't know, Terry has a great product and I invite him to discuss it within the forum.
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TerribleTC
Sergeant
Posts: 51
Registered: 18-5-2007
Location: Brooklyn, MI
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posted on 13-7-2007 at 02:20
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Yes that's true, but if anyone wants to ask about driving simulators they can e-mail me at tcutler@faac.com. I would prefer to use this forum for a
free exchange of information among fellow law enforcement driving instructors. I'm a retired deputy sheriff, from Nevada County, in Calif.
My thoughts on shuffle steering is as follows:
I believe it has value in keeping the hands in a ready position. It works well in most autocross courses, but can be a problem if you try to stick to
it in an Oh @#$! situation. At speed, and evasive maneuver requires quick action. Having the hands at the ready allows you to reach over the top,
get a good purchase on the wheel, hit the brake to transfer the weight to the front wheels, and snap the wheel in one quick motion, providing enough
steering input to direct the vehicle away from the threat. Then you have to be able to reverse the steering input enough to neutralize the lateral
weight transfer, accellerating if need be to keep from losing control. How many accidents have you seen where someone avoids the initial threat, and
then loses control on recovery, or the second threat. There hands always seem to get tied up in this second manuever, as it requires such speed to
stay ahead of the dynamics of the vehicle.
This action has to be practiced to master, and practiced again to retain. I welcome your comments.
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aliciakay
Rookie
Posts: 1
Registered: 9-12-2009
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posted on 9-12-2009 at 11:34
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This thread has been inactive for such a long time. Think topic should be closed.
Regards,
Alicia Kay
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Allmotor
Super Administrator
Posts: 126
Registered: 21-2-2007
Location: Lane County, Oregon
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posted on 10-12-2009 at 08:05
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Most threads have been inactive, but they still provide a historical/technical resource.
-mysterious link removed from above signature-
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Tango-Four-Zero
Rookie
Posts: 3
Registered: 10-12-2009
Location: Western New York
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posted on 10-12-2009 at 09:19
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Ooops... I've had a computer glitch and lost touch with this group by accident -- sorry. Anyway, I've now got my password and the link back.
.
As a former traffic officer from Britain, may I firstly comment on the UK steering methodology. We would differentiate between so-called "shuffle"
steering (which to us would be a derogatory term, indicating inadequate technique) and what we refer to as "pull-push" steering. The difference is
that "shuffle," to a Brit, represents hand movements that are far too short and are therefore inefficient -- for example, literally just moving
one's hands from, say, the 8-to-10 and 2-to-4 positions, in order to turn the wheel. We also derogatorially refer to this method as "milking a
cow!"
.
True "pull-push" steering requires that the hands use the full circumference of the wheel, from the twelve o'clock position down to the six
o'clock position (or, for those of us whose waistbands have expanded somewhat, over the years, as close to the six o'clock as one can comfortably
go!  )
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It is important that neither hand EVER passes these "12" and "6" positions, especially since the advent of drivers' airbags. This is one of the
reasons that hand-over steering in a road car (as opposed to a race car) is potentially so bad. If the airbag goes off while your arms are on the
"wrong" half of the wheel, you get to eat your own fist or wristwatch, at something between 165-210mph!
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As long as a curve or turn actually warrants it, this full use of the circumference of the wheel, for pull-push steering, is vastly more efficient
than that "milking the cow" approach.
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Proper pull-push also serves to keep both hands in permanent contact with the wheel rim and this becomes crucial in the admittedly rare event that one
gets a front-tire blow-out, during a curve or turn, especially when driving at any significant speed. (I've actually had this happen to me once,
when a nearly-new tire was torn by a piece of metal garbage from the road and simply blew, so I really can vouch for this. If I had been doing
"hand-over" steering, I am not confident that the resultant reduced leverage & grip would have allowed me to keep control).
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Here's an additional tip for any of you who want it. Tell trainees to imagine that they have a long, straight stick (or a ruler) balanced across
both of their wrists when learning "pull-push" steering. Then tell them that any time that stick is not completely, horizontally level, they are
getting it wrong. There is one exception to this, but that would be too much detail for this summary. Meanwhile the "rule" is simply this: "Both
hands move down together; both hands move up together -- always horizontally opposite."
.
I hope that helps.
Eddie
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Allmotor
Super Administrator
Posts: 126
Registered: 21-2-2007
Location: Lane County, Oregon
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posted on 10-12-2009 at 13:32
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Your 'push/pull' is basically the same as our 'shuffle steering' here in Oregon. We do not have a national standard steering method that I am
aware of (I could be wrong. I just know what we teach here). Different country, different terminology, but very similar concept. All planned
steering inputs start at the 12 position, both hands 'mirror' each other left to right, one hand has the control and the other slides opposite.
Control passed off at the 6 position and 12 if needed. Hands (fingertips and thumbtips) at 3 and 9.
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Tango-Four-Zero
Rookie
Posts: 3
Registered: 10-12-2009
Location: Western New York
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posted on 10-12-2009 at 13:52
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Yes, we use "ten and two" as the standard (and preferable) wheel-holding position, with "nine and three" as an acceptable alternative, primarily
for physically shorter drivers for whom the slightly higher "10 & 2" could prove uncomfortable. The preference for "10 & 2" comes from
the fact that it provides greater initial leverage and an additional 33 percent in steering input on the first "pull" movement.
Pull-push has been the norm for the UK police for many decades (harking back to the instigation of advanced driver training techniques in 1935), and
it is also mandatory for all learner drivers (US equivalent: student drivers) in which failure to use this technique effectively resulted in automatic
failure to pass one's driving test.
Eddie
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